Conversing Over the Divide: A Encounter Among Different Viewpoints
Introducing the Individuals
First Participant: P., 34, London
Occupation Ex- civil servant, now a student studying public health
Voting record Supported the Green Party recently (and a member of the political group); formerly Labour Party. Identifies as “left, and internationalist instead of patriotic”
Interesting fact A sketch of a tea cup Peter created as a child was once displayed in the National Gallery of Ireland
Other Participant: A., 43, from Harrow
Occupation Risk manager in the construction sector
Voting record Originally from India, he has resided in the UK for five years, and voted the Conservative Party. Describes himself as “slightly moderate right”
Interesting fact He taught himself to read and write the Urdu language. “I have no use for it, I was just fascinated”
For starters
Akshat During the past 20 years, I’ve lived and worked in the Middle East, South Korea, the US. The issues we discussed are focused on Britain, but they are also universal, because people's lives largely follows the same curve across the world. I anticipated someone very liberal, but Peter wasn’t all gung ho – we engaged in a productive, logical conversation. I had a couple of beers, Peter had mojitos.
Peter We split appetizers – seafood rolls, steamed buns, daikon cakes with beansprouts, which were excellent. I felt somewhat anxious, as I believe Akshat was. Was he going to attack me for being a snowflake? We each have immigrant backgrounds. I grew up in Dublin; I have resided in the United States and Spain. We bonded over our affection for London.
Key disagreements
The first participant I look at immigration like sprinkling salt to a dish. With a small amount, the dish is delicious. Add too little or too much and the meal is either too bland or too salty.
The second participant Akshat had a metaphor about seasoning. It would be a funny place to be if the government was choosing some ideal ethnic makeup of the nation.
The first participant There are, unfortunately, individuals fleeing persecution, but many people arriving in the United Kingdom are economic migrants who may not contribute much and can weigh on the welfare system. No one compels you to move to a different nation for opportunity, so you should only go if you are able to support your own needs and your relatives.
Peter We got lost with certain details. In my view it is the case that you arrive and work and then following a half-decade you get permanent citizenship. No process is guaranteed. It’s been a hostile environment for some time, application costs are quite expensive, you pay an healthcare levy, access to benefits is restricted. The red carpet isn’t rolled out for anybody. And regarding the recent changes, whereby you can’t bring your family over, it’s incredible to say: we desire your labor, but we don’t want you. I believe we have to have a certain level of compassion.
Common ground
Akshat Peter’s sceptical of unchecked capitalism. So am I, but at the same time, economic growth benefits society and should be encouraged.
Peter We each have global outlooks. And we concurred that certain elements of the community – politics, the press – thrive off stoking division. We did find shared understanding in basic principles and values.
Dessert and debate
The first participant Peter is of the opinion that since the United Kingdom benefitted from colonial times, it ought to provide compensation to affected nations. My view is simply: you cannot judge the past with present day morality; eras vary, modern people were not responsible of events 50 or 100 years ago. Let’s say the UK was obliged to repay India, it would be a huge amount of money. Is the UK in a position to do that? No.
The second participant Until recently, I don’t think adequate reflection occurred with colonial history. For example, upon my arrival to the United Kingdom, the public had little knowledge of the Great Famine and the part that colonialism contributed to it. My view is decolonization is not merely about signing a cheque, it should be about looking at what went wrong and our current responsibilities.
Final thoughts
Akshat It won’t change the my perspective, but I understand Peter’s concerns. I converse with individuals regularly with opinions are opposite to mine. It’s about bringing everyone to the same page, so that everyone can work towards the betterment of society.
Peter We remained for 150 minutes. Akshat had dessert and I had some sweet Japanese wine. I did not convince him of any point, but we both enjoyed dinner, so we could hopefully be more receptive to engaging in dialogues with others in the coming times.
